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Off Topic => Everything Else => Debate Den => Topic started by: carterhawk on May 26, 2006, 06:41:52 pm

Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on May 26, 2006, 06:41:52 pm
Please vote on this issue as best you feel. Discussion depends on how hte votes come in.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: TailFin on May 26, 2006, 06:43:23 pm
Que pasa qui?  NUNCA!!!
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Lil Loco on May 26, 2006, 07:06:16 pm
no...
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Elizabeth Rose on May 26, 2006, 07:07:02 pm
No way.  The poor guys are dead and their families are hurting.  No need to make it worse.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on May 26, 2006, 08:21:06 pm
note: there are links in here, the words law and westboro are linked, please use IPB Default to see links in my posts.

since i see the trend here, id like to bring up the reason why I feel that as much as these people are total a$$hats, they have the right to do so:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

By making a law (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/25/politics/main1654522.shtml) that prevents the Westboro Baptist Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church) from protesting at funerals (who else does it, realy?), the government is infringing upon the rights of a minority group. While this may seem like a good thing, it isnt. The constitution gauruntees them the right to be as lame as they want, and for that right to be taken away is criminal. No this wont stop them from protesting, but it has the potentional to lead to that. When a government starts picking on the minorities and taking away their freedoms, and then starts taking away bigger freedoms, it gets too powerful. This is the sort of thing that happened in germany, starting with blaming the jews, then taging the jews, and finaly killing the jews. It happens everyday in china where the right of the people to say and think as they wish is continualy oppressed. America is fighting a war right now to give to the people of iraq the very rights it is taking away from the westboro group. I dont like what they say, and realy no one does, but the last thing that we should be doing is taking away their constitutionaly protected right to protest as they wish. it leads to a slipperly slope of continualy repressing free speech among unpopular groups, and could one day lead to forbiding the westboro and other groups from even existing. when the rights of one person are infringed upon, the rights of all persons are infringed upon.


I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ---Evelyn Beatrice Hall, summarizing the beliefs of Voltaire.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Lil Loco on May 26, 2006, 09:12:34 pm
disrespecting any soldier who paid the ultimate sacrafice for his country is straight up wrong.  and if someone is gonna reserve the right to say crap like that, then i should be able to reserve the right to whoop their ::Dolphin Noise:: for it.

if you dont like your country then get out, but i'll be dammed if it'll be looked at as ok to attack the name of the very people who fight to give you the rights you feel you should have.  stompin and yellin crap like that at a dead soldier's funeral should be just like yellin "i have a bomb" on an airplane...if you do it, you should be arrested and preferably get beaten for it.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on May 26, 2006, 10:22:58 pm
Quote
disrespecting any soldier who paid the ultimate sacrafice for his country is straight up wrong.  and if someone is gonna reserve the right to say crap like that, then i should be able to reserve the right to whoop their ::Dolphin Noise:: for it.

if you dont like your country then get out, but i'll be dammed if it'll be looked at as ok to attack the name of the very people who fight to give you the rights you feel you should have.  stompin and yellin crap like that at a dead soldier's funeral should be just like yellin "i have a bomb" on an airplane...if you do it, you should be arrested and preferably get beaten for it.
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no, there is a big difference between falsely yelling fire in a theatre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theatre), and telling someone you think their son deserved to die. You have the right to hate them and want to pound their asses, but if you do physicaly attack them, then that's battery and you would be in the wrong. Until their words and actions start causing actual violations of the law (Read This Link) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action) then what they are doing is not legaly wrong. Not only that, but two wrongs don't make a right. You dump a girl and she is hurt. Is it right for her father to come kick your ::Dolphin Noise:: to make her feel better? Not at all. One of the founding principles of this country is the right to do as you wish so long as it doesnt infringe on that same right for other people. The best thing we can do is to let them go right on saying what they want where they want, and let the people of america just stop listening to them. the problem will take care of itself over time as people start recognizing them in public and confronting them, or refusing to do business with them. it should be the people that deal with this, not the government.

but who am i to talk? im not a great writer by any means, however if you read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian) you get an idea of where i stand.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Lil Loco on May 26, 2006, 10:35:30 pm
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You dump a girl and she is hurt.  Is it right for her father to come kick your ::Dolphin Noise:: to make her feel better?
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if the guy verbally or physically hurt the girl, with no regard for her feelings or the feeling of her family...then hell yea, the dad should beat the fool.

trust me, i know exactly wut you're tryin to say...but where i stand is where i stand.  disrespecting a guardian of your freedom on those grounds is unacceptable and i feel that the law should not protect you if you're going to do it...thats my opinion and it'll always stay the same.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on May 26, 2006, 10:41:04 pm
Quote
Quote
You dump a girl and she is hurt.  Is it right for her father to come kick your ::Dolphin Noise:: to make her feel better?
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if the guy verbally or physically hurt the girl, with no regard for her feelings or the feeling of her family...then hell yea, the dad should beat the fool.

trust me, i know exactly wut you're tryin to say...but where i stand is where i stand.  disrespecting a guardian of your freedom on those grounds is unacceptable and i feel that the law should not protect you if you're going to do it...thats my opinion and it'll always stay the same.
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and you have the right to that opinion, a right that you would deny the protestors. what makes you more deserving of freedom than them?
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Lil Loco on May 26, 2006, 10:43:18 pm
i aint more deserving of freedom than them.  no one should slander the name our troops in this country...i aint just sayin that particular group of people.  it should apply to everyone.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Elizabeth Rose on May 26, 2006, 10:56:32 pm
That church of dips does have the right to protest.  So, I say the living relatives of these families should have the right to whoop them good for being so disrespectful.  It's a cryin' shame that anyone would be so hateful, though.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: garyfan on May 27, 2006, 06:15:13 am
No, you need to respect the person that died. But then again, you do have the freedom to assemble peacefully. It is still being extremely disrespectful to doo that.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Daniel on May 27, 2006, 07:05:05 am
Hell no they shouldn't. That is disgusting that they would even think about doing that.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: DiE HaRrD PuNk on June 04, 2006, 12:28:01 pm
Quote
disrespecting any soldier who paid the ultimate sacrafice for his country is straight up wrong.  and if someone is gonna reserve the right to say crap like that, then i should be able to reserve the right to whoop their ::Dolphin Noise:: for it.

if you dont like your country then get out, but i'll be dammed if it'll be looked at as ok to attack the name of the very people who fight to give you the rights you feel you should have.  stompin and yellin crap like that at a dead soldier's funeral should be just like yellin "i have a bomb" on an airplane...if you do it, you should be arrested and preferably get beaten for it.
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i coldnt agree more with you on this one
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on June 04, 2006, 03:28:12 pm
Okay then, so we have most of you against the first ammendment. Should i take then that most of you also hate america? because america is about freedom of expression. There is no place on this planet more tolerant of unpopular speech. Maybe you would all prefer to go live in germany where its practicaly illegal to even talk about Nazi's now. Or perhaps communist china where expressing your thoughts about the government could get you *elminated* from existing. Your all hypocrites. You claim to support america but at the same time would destroy what america stands for in order to protect it.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: IceFox on June 04, 2006, 04:05:23 pm
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Okay then, so we have most of you against the first ammendment. Should i take then that most of you also hate america? because america is about freedom of expression. There is no place on this planet more tolerant of unpopular speech. Maybe you would all prefer to go live in germany where its practicaly illegal to even talk about Nazi's now. Or perhaps communist china where expressing your thoughts about the government could get you *elminated* from existing. Your all hypocrites. You claim to support america but at the same time would destroy what america stands for in order to protect it.
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I dont think anyone is saying they are against it. All you do is extend things further than there meaning to make it seem like you are right. All they are saying is people shouldn't protest, no one said they should be banned from it.
Title: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Lil Loco on June 04, 2006, 05:46:34 pm
Quote
Okay then, so we have most of you against the first ammendment. Should i take then that most of you also hate america? because america is about freedom of expression. There is no place on this planet more tolerant of unpopular speech. Maybe you would all prefer to go live in germany where its practicaly illegal to even talk about Nazi's now. Or perhaps communist china where expressing your thoughts about the government could get you *elminated* from existing. Your all hypocrites. You claim to support america but at the same time would destroy what america stands for in order to protect it.
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i love my country...i love the people that serve it...i'll be joining the marine corps within the next couple years.  to sit there and say that i or anyone else hate america cuz we dont agree with tolerating anyone belittling the value of a soldier's life is the most ironic and stupidest ::Dolphin Noise:: you could ever say.  i care about my country and its soldiers enough to actually WANT to defend their good name...i dunno about you.  america is the land of freedom...but if you want to talk trash on it or its defenders, then wut the hell are you doing here?  if you love your country then obviously you're in the right place...if you hate it, then find another.  freedom of speech is fine, but slander to such a degree shouldnt be seen as ok....period.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: IceFox on June 07, 2006, 08:45:07 pm
Quote
Okay then, so we have most of you against the first ammendment. Should i take then that most of you also hate america? because america is about freedom of expression. There is no place on this planet more tolerant of unpopular speech. Maybe you would all prefer to go live in germany where its practicaly illegal to even talk about Nazi's now. Or perhaps communist china where expressing your thoughts about the government could get you *elminated* from existing. Your all hypocrites. You claim to support america but at the same time would destroy what america stands for in order to protect it.
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but slander to such a degree shouldnt be seen as ok....period.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: AppleNick on June 07, 2006, 10:24:25 pm
Freedom of expression and all, but a funeral just isn't the place to do it.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: SpongeBrain on June 09, 2006, 12:30:45 pm
Considering this is America, yes. It's horrible but this is America. In America we have free speech. There you go.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Rocko on June 09, 2006, 01:13:44 pm
No, a funeral is supposed to look back, and talk about all the good the person did in their life. And to respect them, not protest, and politicize it.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: VulturEMaN on June 10, 2006, 08:25:43 pm
A funeral is a funeral. Respect the dead, or they'll grab your ankles when you're running through the cemetary at night....
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: weird_4 on June 10, 2006, 10:34:15 pm
No way man. That's disrespectfull to those who have faught for our country.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Sb129 on June 11, 2006, 07:35:02 pm
No,if the freakin' hippies or whatever want to protest about something go protest against freakin' gas or something.These families are so sad that family member died & freakin' hippies are protesting!?WTF!?WTF!? :angry:
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on June 11, 2006, 08:57:15 pm
No,if the freakin' hippies or whatever want to protest about something go protest against freakin' gas or something.These families are so sad that family member died & freakin' hippies are protesting!?WTF!?WTF!? :angry:

hippies?
dude, try getting a clue, then come back with a post.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Sb129 on June 11, 2006, 09:32:13 pm
Eh,hippies,whackos same thing in my book.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: weird_4 on June 12, 2006, 03:46:00 pm
Well first of all, that's a good point. Why not make their lifes more miserable than it is?
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: SpongeBrain on June 12, 2006, 03:59:53 pm
Eh,hippies,whackos same thing in my book.



dude, try getting a clue, then come back with a post.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: VulturEMaN on June 12, 2006, 05:03:07 pm
My other half of my view:

They can freely express whatever they want somewhere else. :P

Otherwise I'll freely express how much my 'pet' shotgun likes to sing for idiots :D
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on June 12, 2006, 11:13:58 pm
My other half of my view:

They can freely express whatever they want somewhere else. :P

Otherwise I'll freely express how much my 'pet' shotgun likes to sing for idiots :D

that kind of thinking is what will lead to "Free Speech Zones" being the only places to legaly exercise your first ammendment rights.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Sb129 on June 13, 2006, 12:40:44 am
My other half of my view:

They can freely express whatever they want somewhere else. :P

Otherwise I'll freely express how much my 'pet' shotgun likes to sing for idiots :D
LOL.*Bang!Bang!*Wow,I never thought he'd do it.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: VulturEMaN on June 13, 2006, 04:46:26 am
My other half of my view:

They can freely express whatever they want somewhere else. :P

Otherwise I'll freely express how much my 'pet' shotgun likes to sing for idiots :D

that kind of thinking is what will lead to "Free Speech Zones" being the only places to legaly exercise your first ammendment rights.

No you silly goose...I mean....like....make it a state/national law that "Protesting on cemetary or funeral home property is grounds for a severe penalty"....something like that.

Are you trying to come across as a professional word-twister? I'm pretty sure that everyone else understood what I was saying...
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on June 13, 2006, 08:54:38 am
Im not twisting your words, im extrapolating 20, 50, 100 years down the line where the government has continuously restriced where we can and can't exercise free speech to the point where you have to go three towns over the Free Speech Zone before you can say what you want without getting arrested.
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: VulturEMaN on June 14, 2006, 04:32:05 am
Maybe it's just cause I'm from PA and only know PA history, but I've never heard of anything like that before....
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: Elizabeth Rose on June 14, 2006, 10:26:46 am
Maybe it's just cause I'm from PA and only know PA history, but I've never heard of anything like that before....
For the most part, they are these special zones for people who want to make jackasses of themselves and call if "free speech". :P
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: carterhawk on June 15, 2006, 01:17:59 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Zone
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: IZ on June 15, 2006, 10:09:56 pm
Sure, they're allowed to, but people will resort to violence
Title: Re: Funeral Protests?
Post by: super_sayian_spongebob on July 05, 2006, 09:56:56 am
No, people at funerals are they're because they're friends and family have died. Protesting around it seems sort of disrespectful.