The United SpongeBob Forums
Off Topic => Everything Else => Debate Den => Topic started by: VulturEMaN on March 26, 2007, 08:11:46 pm
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http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=166&a=1478
Discuss yay or nay support.
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I am so sick of all the warmongering. Also how about instead of disarming Iran's nuclear program, we disarm our OWN? Or how about we quit making DU ammunition to decimate their countries with? Just a thought.
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I am so sick of all the warmongering. Also how about instead of disarming Iran's nuclear program, we disarm our OWN? Or how about we quit making DU ammunition to decimate their countries with? Just a thought.
Because, the sad thing is, we have to have our weapons because everyone else has them. If we disarm ourselves, then we open ourselves up to being blown off the map by China, Russia, and other countries.
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I am so sick of all the warmongering. Also how about instead of disarming Iran's nuclear program, we disarm our OWN? Or how about we quit making DU ammunition to decimate their countries with? Just a thought.
Because, the sad thing is, we have to have our weapons because everyone else has them. If we disarm ourselves, then we open ourselves up to being blown off the map by China, Russia, and other countries.
Yes, but then can't Iran say the same thing? Why must Bush take away their defenses, leaving them vulnerable? A bit contradicting don't you think?
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If America disarmed, it would trigger a chain-reaction across the world...In addition to our country getting attacked, Israel will come under siege and the entire Middle East would erupt in chaos. Remaining nuclear powers such as China and Russia would likely capitalize on the opportunity to seize power and world war could ensue. Stability lies in the deterrence that nuclear powers pose towards each other. America's nuclear power is a keystone in global balance...Iran holds no such significance to stability. And no good would come of Iran becoming a nuclear power.
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If America disarmed, it would trigger a chain-reaction across the world...In addition to our country getting attacked, Israel will come under siege and the entire Middle East would erupt in chaos. Remaining nuclear powers such as China and Russia would likely capitalize on the opportunity to seize power and world war could ensue. Stability lies in the deterrence that nuclear powers pose towards each other. America's nuclear power is a keystone in global balance...Iran holds no such significance to stability. And no good would come of Iran becoming a nuclear power.
Oh yeah, and so much good has come from the US having access to nuclear pwoer right? And why are you worrying about China? Worry about North Korea. THEY have the nukes. THEY are the ones you should worry about. And I doubt any of that would happen. Good never comes from anyone having nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons/power are dangerous and fatal for the environment.
And I am not saying disarm are country totally. That is suicide. But there are other alternatives to deadly nuclear weapons. I am not saying I agree with Iran having nukes, because I don't. Nobody should have them. But if you are gonna disarm Iran disarm everyone else of their nukes as well. I know that is extremely hard to do but still. Really. There is no need for anything nuclear.
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Oh trust me, I think that North Korea should be stopped and with no delay...They are a threat to us and the world, as would Iran be if they gained the opportunity. You can say that nuclear weapons aren't good and thats fine and dandy, but unless you can magically make all nuclear capabilities of all enabled nations disappear at once, it's necessary that we have them.
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"Operation Bite: April 6 sneak attack by US forces against Iran planned, Russian military sources warn"
Tell me how exactly this is a sneak attack if it is on the news?
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Russian war leaders leak info cause they now hate the US?
Was secret, now not.
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Russia's never really been on our side to begin with.
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Russia's never really been on our side to begin with.
They were our second greatest ally during the World Wars.
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Russia's never really been on our side to begin with.
How so? And what motive does Russia have for attacking the US?
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Russia's never really been on our side to begin with.
How so? And what motive does Russia have for attacking the US?
They don't need a reason.
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They don't need a reason.
Exactly, so why would they waste precious resources and blowing money to launch a senseless pointless attack against the US? If they did that it would be another Iraq in Russia, and the US already made a worldwide example in Iraq of what will happen to anyone who retaliates against the US... and Iraq didn't even attack the US! Tell me how messed up and pointless that is!
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They don't need a reason.
Exactly, so why would they waste precious resources and blowing money to launch a senseless pointless attack against the US? If they did that it would be another Iraq in Russia, and the US already made a worldwide example in Iraq of what will happen to anyone who retaliates against the US... and Iraq didn't even attack the US! Tell me how messed up and pointless that is!
The problem is that men are power-obsessed. They don't care about economies, or money, or logic. They are about gaining power. That's why Russia would attack us, for power.
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They don't need a reason.
Exactly, so why would they waste precious resources and blowing money to launch a senseless pointless attack against the US? If they did that it would be another Iraq in Russia, and the US already made a worldwide example in Iraq of what will happen to anyone who retaliates against the US... and Iraq didn't even attack the US! Tell me how messed up and pointless that is!
The problem is that men are power-obsessed. They don't care about economies, or money, or logic. They are about gaining power. That's why Russia would attack us, for power.
*Cough*
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I think she means MANKIND.
Cause the whole race is pretty much like that.
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The problem is that men are power-obsessed. They don't care about economies, or money, or logic. They are about gaining power. That's why Russia would attack us, for power.
See, I just doubt that would happen. It doesn't seem feasable to me. They would have nothing to gain by attacking us.
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I think she means MANKIND.
Cause the whole race is pretty much like that.
*Cough*Joking*Cough*
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The problem is that men are power-obsessed. They don't care about economies, or money, or logic. They are about gaining power. That's why Russia would attack us, for power.
See, I just doubt that would happen. It doesn't seem feasable to me. They would have nothing to gain by attacking us.
Well there is no doubt in my mind that it definitely WOULD happen. They have plenty to gain by wiping us off the map. Then they would be the world center of attention. That's all there is to it. I promise you it would happen.
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Well there is no doubt in my mind that it definitely WOULD happen. They have plenty to gain by wiping us off the map. Then they would be the world center of attention. That's all there is to it. I promise you it would happen.
Namely, what all would they gain by attacking the US? Definately a spot on Fox News and CNN but that's about it. Unless there would be a significant monetary gain it would be stupid to attack the US. You can't gain power without money.
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Russia's never really been on our side to begin with.
They were our second greatest ally during the World Wars.
I didn't say that Russia never fought on the same team as America, I said they've never really been on our side...meaning that they've never truly been for us. They would have been stupid not to fight alongside America and the Allies in WWII...'The enemy of my enemy is my friend.' :P
But that didn't make America and Russia buddies, as the Cold War would prove soon after.
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That is not the point though...
It is crazy to plan an attack on Iran. The day of passover no less. Bush and his buddies just want more money. No matter how many people are killed and left bloody along the way. If he launches this attack more innocent people are going to die. Bush has stained the flag of this country with too much innocent blood. And how does he have any proof Iran plans on being hostile towards us? How does he have any proof they plan on attacking us?
For Christ's sake this war needs to dolphin noise stop, more innocent people are going to die and Bush doesn't give a damn!
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Muslims don't celebrate passover... do they?
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Muslims don't celebrate passover... do they?
what's your point?
I'm thinking that bush thinks this is his own personal holy war.
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Muslims don't celebrate passover... do they?
That is not the point, Danny... who cares? I am just pointing out that Bush is a madman... a bloody butchering lying tyrannical corrupter warmonging right wing nutjob.
So Iran has nukes... A lot of countries have nukes! As long as Iran isn't making any threats to the US then what is the deal! If Bush launches this attack, he will drive our country into even FURTHER debt. $100 BILLION to be exact. We can't afford this dolphin noise dolphin noise. More innocent people will die but I guess the extreme right wing doesn't care.
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Well there is no doubt in my mind that it definitely WOULD happen. They have plenty to gain by wiping us off the map. Then they would be the world center of attention. That's all there is to it. I promise you it would happen.
Namely, what all would they gain by attacking the US? Definately a spot on Fox News and CNN but that's about it. Unless there would be a significant monetary gain it would be stupid to attack the US. You can't gain power without money.
It doesn't have to be "smart". A spot on the news would be plenty for them. And if they destroyed us completely then they are the new center of the world. Men have done it for centuries. How many people in history have killed someone to gain position?
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Well there is no doubt in my mind that it definitely WOULD happen. They have plenty to gain by wiping us off the map. Then they would be the world center of attention. That's all there is to it. I promise you it would happen.
Namely, what all would they gain by attacking the US? Definately a spot on Fox News and CNN but that's about it. Unless there would be a significant monetary gain it would be stupid to attack the US. You can't gain power without money.
It doesn't have to be "smart". A spot on the news would be plenty for them. And if they destroyed us completely then they are the new center of the world. Men have done it for centuries. How many people in history have killed someone to gain position?
That is usually individual people, groups, or factions... not entire countries.
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If anyone thinks that nothing bad will come of Iran becoming nuclear enabled, then they are either too hopeful for their own good or flat-out ignorant.
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If anyone thinks that nothing bad will come of Iran becoming nuclear enabled, then they are either too hopeful for their own good or flat-out ignorant.
Oh yeah, so lets just attack them and have even more people hate us right?
What proof do you have that they plan on using the nukes? If The United States and Great Britain has a right to manufacture nukes then Iran does to. Iran isn't hurting anybody right now. If they threatened to use the nukes that is one thing... but if they are just sitting back and using them as a means of defense in case some idiots deciede to attack them then I see no threat.
Anyways, would your God want you to attack Iran? Whatever happened to thou shall not kill? Oh yeah, that's right. You only use the bible when it is convieniant for you. I forgot how conservatives worked for a second. I apologize.
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If anyone thinks that nothing bad will come of Iran becoming nuclear enabled, then they are either too hopeful for their own good or flat-out ignorant.
Oh yeah, so lets just attack them and have even more people hate us right?
What proof do you have that they plan on using the nukes? If The United States and Great Britain has a right to manufacture nukes then Iran does to. Iran isn't hurting anybody right now. If they threatened to use the nukes that is one thing... but if they are just sitting back and using them as a means of defense in case some idiots deciede to attack them then I see no threat.
Anyways, would your God want you to attack Iran? Whatever happened to thou shall not kill? Oh yeah, that's right. You only use the bible when it is convieniant for you. I forgot how conservatives worked for a second. I apologize.
For years and years Iran has spread words of hate for America and it's ally Israel. Words speaking of the death and destruction. "Oh they just want nukes for defense." Give me a freakin break. Just because you choose to be blissfully ignorant of reality, doesn't mean everyone else has to be. And God wouldn't want a madman leader of Iran who holds nothing but distain and wishes of bloodshed for everyone who sees things differently than him to have the means to inflict destruction on a scale of any sort. And wow you just can't resist trying to giet a dig in on Christianity wherever you can, can you? Nice to see your true colors...Thanks for that.
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If anyone thinks that nothing bad will come of Iran becoming nuclear enabled, then they are either too hopeful for their own good or flat-out ignorant.
Oh yeah, so lets just attack them and have even more people hate us right?
What proof do you have that they plan on using the nukes? If The United States and Great Britain has a right to manufacture nukes then Iran does to. Iran isn't hurting anybody right now. If they threatened to use the nukes that is one thing... but if they are just sitting back and using them as a means of defense in case some idiots deciede to attack them then I see no threat.
Anyways, would your God want you to attack Iran? Whatever happened to thou shall not kill? Oh yeah, that's right. You only use the bible when it is convieniant for you. I forgot how conservatives worked for a second. I apologize.
For years and years Iran has spread words of hate for America and it's ally Israel. Words speaking of the death and destruction. "Oh they just want nukes for defense." Give me a freakin break. Just because you choose to be blissfully ignorant of reality, doesn't mean everyone else has to be. And God wouldn't want a madman leader of Iran who holds nothing but distain and wishes of bloodshed for everyone who sees things differently than him to have the means to inflict destruction on a scale of any sort. And wow you just can't resist trying to giet a dig in on Christianity wherever you can, can you? Nice to see your true colors...Thanks for that.
Yeah, Iran has spread words of hate, but how many countries has Iran destroyed? How many countries has Iran left uninhabitable? You call me blissfully ignorant of reality? I am not the one calling for the spreading of pointless and bloody wars. Look at BUSH. Look at the damage HE has done. Instead of worrying about a foreign nation that is THOUSANDS of miles away worry about what is happening on our own US soil. We have a murderous tyrant right in DC.
My true colors? I was making a point, Jeremy... that when it comes to war you are totally fine and ok with it, but even the the bible CLEARLY STATES "Thou shalt not kill" Conservatives and the religious right worry more about gay marriage becoming legal then about the thousands of innocent people being slaughtered in Iraq... and even the genocide happening in Darfur.
My true colors are to share my opinions, no matter what my friends say UNAPOLOGETICALLY. I don't have a problem with you personally, Jeremy... just some of your politics piss me off. But if you want it to be that way, then fine. Whatever. This is why I quit discussing politics for awhile because people get offended by me and fly off the handle.
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When did I freakin say that I was fine and ok with war? When? War sucks, every war sucks. People die. I lost a cousin in Iraq and it was one of the worst feelings in my life. Having someone you grew up with snatched away from you like nothing isn't something I take lightly. And yeah, Bush has been doing a crap job in Iraq for awhile, and I honestly think he needs to formulate a final stradegy for giving full control to the Iraqi military and pulling out there. That being said, as much as war sucks, it's necessary sometimes. People like Osama and Kim Jong are evil people and they should be stood against. Innocent lives are that are taken in the midst of war are devastating and I wish innocents didn't get caught in the fray but it happens. As far as gay-marriage, which you like to bring up all the time...I'm not consumed with the gay-marriage issue...I don't agree with it, but I don't go around yelling about it. I just don't agree with gay-marriage, those are my beliefs. You have yours and that's fine. But do you not see a reason for me to get aprehensive at the constant slamming of my faith? I don't rip on you for being gay. If you don't agree with Christianity that's fine, but if you don't think that me and my faith deserve respect just as much as you and your ideals do then that's pretty messed up, Ty. You don't have to agree with my views as I don't have to agree with yours...But I don't slam people for their beliefs.
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When did I freakin say that I was fine and ok with war? When? War sucks, every war sucks. People die. I lost a cousin in Iraq and it was one of the worst feelings in my life. Having someone you grew up with snatched away from you like nothing isn't something I take lightly. And yeah, Bush has been doing a crap job in Iraq for awhile, and I honestly think he needs to formulate a final stradegy for giving full control to the Iraqi military and pulling out there. That being said, as much as war sucks, it's necessary sometimes. People like Osama and Kim Jong are evil people and they should be stood against. Innocent lives are that are taken in the midst of war are devastating and I wish innocents didn't get caught in the fray but it happens. As far as gay-marriage, which you like to bring up all the time...I'm not consumed with the gay-marriage issue...I don't agree with it, but I don't go around yelling about it. I just don't agree with gay-marriage, those are my beliefs. You have yours and that's fine. But do you not see a reason for me to get aprehensive at the constant slamming of my faith? I don't rip on you for being gay. If you don't agree with Christianity that's fine, but if you don't think that me and my faith deserve respect just as much as you and your ideals do then that's pretty messed up, Ty. You don't have to agree with my views as I don't have to agree with yours...But I don't slam people for their beliefs.
According to your opinion on Iran it was apparent to me that you were ok with attacking them. I will admit, I supported the war at first but I look back at it now and see how truly horrendous and terrible it truly was. In my opinion Bush is the lowest form of life on this planet right now. If he was right in front of me, burning to death in flame I would throw a bucket of fuel starter on him and roast marshmallows (SP). He never did a good job in handling Iraq.
As far as Osama goes, then how come they didn't send all those tons of troops to Afghanistan? Yes, there are troops there, but there have been MANY MANY more troops in Iraq. Why is it the Iraqi war? Why not the Afghani war? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 so why did Bush attack them? And he got Saddam and all the bad guys there so why did he convieniantly forget about Osama? He should have been found a long time ago... Bush sidetracked the entire war into something completely different.
It was not my intent to slam your beliefs there, Jeremy. It really wasn't. No, you don't rip on me for being gay. But I was trying to make a point, rather though I mis-worded what I wanted to point out. I was just trying to explain how a lot of religious conservatives these days only attack with the bible when it is convieniant for them, such as gay marriage. When the government launches a massive war of epic proportions you don't here them preaching the bible... they just sit back and watch the sparks fly.
I am sick of all the religious people I live around preaching to me constantly and it has driven me to be resentful of Christianity. I talked to my mom about this yesterday. I had someone tell me I couldn't be Christian because I am gay... I just got fed up.
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I'm not for senseless killing...I am for stopping any bloodthirsty psycho from getting his hands on highly destructive weapons. In Iraq, I wanted to see Saddam taken out and the new military forces trained and given watch over the country...Once those things become plausible reality and we were still there, I started getting pissed about it. And trust me, I agree that Osama is a primary target that should never have left America's focus...I hope he is brought back to our full attention.
I believe that war is just when it is for the cause of ridding the world of evil men and helping people who need help. Aside from that, I see little other just cause for it.
As far as what those fools around you are saying..It's not a Christian's place to condemn anyone or tell them that they can't become Christian...Your lifestyle is between you and God and no one else. Only God can judge.
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
Just like in World War II when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour? Better option than going to war would be...?
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
Just like in World War II when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour? Better option than going to war would be...?
Diplomacy.
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
Just like in World War II when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour? Better option than going to war would be...?
Dropping tons of atomic bombs and killing millions of innocent people of course! I mean, after all, it's the conservative thing to do right?
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
Just like in World War II when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour? Better option than going to war would be...?
Dropping tons of atomic bombs and killing millions of innocent people of course! I mean, after all, it's the conservative thing to do right?
Unless I'm mistaken, Truman was a democrat.
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Oh yeah, apparently this whole operation bite thing turned out to be a april fool's prank... think about it, would you announce a sneak attack?
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Well they didn't "annouce it", some Russian supposedly leaked it...But if the operation was a prank, it wouldn't surprise me. If the government really wanted to keep an operation underwraps, they'd do it without problems.
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It was a prank this time...
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Oh yeah, apparently this whole operation bite thing turned out to be a april fool's prank... think about it, would you announce a sneak attack?
link?
oh, and don't hold your breath over the fake-ness....
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/070401/1/47k8w.html
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
Just like in World War II when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour? Better option than going to war would be...?
Diplomacy.
Uh hu..
"Oh hey! You bombed us, but instead of fighting back, we are just going to talk it out!"
That is great in theory, but rarely works..
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
Just like in World War II when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour? Better option than going to war would be...?
Diplomacy.
Uh hu..
"Oh hey! You bombed us, but instead of fighting back, we are just going to talk it out!"
That is great in theory, but rarely works..
"Oh hey! You bombed us, and we're going to send off millions of men to die and hopefully, it will all end with the major destruction of two major cities and innumerable sons, fathers and husbands left dead."
And you're telling me that works?
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
Just like in World War II when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour? Better option than going to war would be...?
Diplomacy.
Uh hu..
"Oh hey! You bombed us, but instead of fighting back, we are just going to talk it out!"
That is great in theory, but rarely works..
"Oh hey! You bombed us, and we're going to send off millions of men to die and hopefully, it will all end with the major destruction of two major cities and innumerable sons, fathers and husbands left dead."
And you're telling me that works?
Well, it obviously did...
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We won the war, did we not?
While the nuclear bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima was way over the top, you know that diplomacy wouldn't have meant jack to the Emperor. And I love how you throw out the word "millions" so easily, seeing as how our casualties estimated around 300,000...but hey close enough right? That's not to say that 300,000 lives is nothing, that's alotta people...But the fact is that if America hadn't stepped into the war, the chances of Allied victory would have been slim-to-none...Alotta Europeans would be speaking German right now and alotta Asians would be speaking Japanese. Pacifism is nice in thought, but there's always gonna be people would pose a threat to the world and there's always gonna have to be people who combat them.
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nobody wins wars
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War is never necessary... there are always alternatives to war, I don't care what you say. We have brains for a reason. So that we can reason and think, instead of being animal like and physically attacking something anytime they piss us off.
War doesn't determine who wins, it determines the body count.
Anyways, Bush hasn't even tried being diplomatic... he just went right to war.
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Just like Lincoln. ^.^
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Just like Lincoln. ^.^
Nah, both sides failed to compromise... Lincoln and Lee are both just as at fault.
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Just like Lincoln. ^.^
I do love how if a President does something wrong, it's ok as long as someone's done it before.
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I'm a pacifist. There's always a better option than war.
Just like in World War II when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour? Better option than going to war would be...?
Pearl Harbor was a response to years of the US "annexing" Pacific islands closer and closer to Japan. Had we not done that, they wouldn't have attacked.
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Even if that was their "reasoning" behind attacking, it didn't make it right or justified...We weren't even combatants at the time.
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nobody wins wars
Just what I was about to say.
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War doesn't determine who wins... it determines who survives.
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It really determines how stupid we've become.
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why be (overly) stupid when life on earth is so short?
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why be (overly) stupid when life on earth is so short?
You read my mind. Whenever I feel angry, I just think, my life is too short to be pestered with such things. I should marvel in the beauty of everything around me. People don't understand the human condition in war. These are people's lives. I don't know about you... but there are no causes I'd die for, and certainly none I'd kill for.
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I wouldn't kill for much (my family if the house is being attacked by people), but I would definently die for many different causes. I'm too tired to think of any, and I need to take a shower...bbl :P
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I would die to protect my family, my friends, and my country.
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I would die to protect my family, my friends, and my country.
Well, your family and friends aren't "causes". I consider a cause to be a social movement, and I guess in the spark of a moment, I might die for my family and friends. But for my country? I'm too liberal.
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Men in the past fought and died for this country's freedoms and I would be willing to do the same.
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It depends I guess.
Back then they were fighting for freedom.
Today they're fighting for halliburton to get more money.
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Views on the motives of the Iraq war can differ but the war isn't the military's call, nor is it the servicemen's primary duty. The defence of America is a servicemen's primary duty and in that, I would be willing to fight and die for it.
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Well, I respect you. I really do. But I don't like when people would stand up for a certain group or country no matter what. I mean, most of time it's commitment, but it can lead to making stupid decisions.
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I see no wrong in wanting to fight for the preservation of the country you love.
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I see no wrong in wanting to fight for the preservation of the country you love.
Yeah, well I'd rather be not fighting at all, but if I had to choose sides it would be my own country. What I'm trying to say is, I would not fight for a cause I do not believe in. I don't agree with the Iraq War because we are not fighting a tangible enemy, but a tactic.
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I may not agree with us still being there at this point either but the war in Iraq isn't going to be forever and that still doesn't change my willingness to fight and/or die for this country. You have your stances, that's fine. I just see certain things differently.
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I would gladly fight to defend the country, and I think even you would too patback if it came to where we were getting raped by another country.
I would run to canada or iceland before I ever set foot in iraq, tho.
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Well, I don't ever have to worry about being drafted or joining the army... I am Gay, so i'm not allowed anyways :mellow:
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Well, I don't ever have to worry about being drafted or joining the army... I am Gay, so i'm not allowed anyways :mellow:
If they ever start up a draft, I'll just act really gay.
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If they ever start up a draft, I'll just act really gay.
Haha, seriously?
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most likely I would also. Wouldn't be too hard, seeing as I know a friend that I graduated with who is gay. I'll just call him up and be like wtf i'm comin over for a month go buy beer.