Author Topic: Your Political party  (Read 13805 times)

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Dragon Of Grief

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2007, 04:58:21 am »
O_o

Not that I really understand where Joey is going with the name-title thing but...You don't receive pension, social security benefits, hospital visitation, and disability?
Remember the other topic where I told you the difference between a marriage and a civil union?

Well, a heterosexual married couple would get hospital visitation if their spouse was severely ill. Civil unions don't have that benefit. Basically if my boyfriend got hurt badly or was dying the hospital could basically tell me to go screw myself.

Social Security and Veteran Death Benefits:

Marriage: Married people receive Social Security and veteran benefit payments upon the death of a spouse.

Civil Unions: NONE


Immigration Benefits:

Marriage: US citizens and legal permanent residents can sponsor their spouse and other family members for immigration.

Civil Unions: NONE


Portability of rights:

Marriage: Automatically recognized in all 50 states.

Civion Unions: Rognition not guaranteed outside the state that grants it.


Medical decisions/ Emergencies:

Marriage: A spouse or family member may make decisions for an incompetent or disabled person unless contrary written instructions exist, and can generally visit their partner in the hospital.

Civil Union: Partner's right to visitation and medical decision-making may not be recognized out of state.

It is simply not about wanting the title of marriage, although it is nice... it is about getting the government assistance we so rightly deserve... and 2,000 years of Christian law is getting in the way of that. It's one thing to think homosexuality is a sin, but it is another thing to deny someone basic human rights because of that factor. And think about all the gay/lesbian couple with children through adoption or previous relationships. We don't get any help with our children, when actually in fact there are people who want to rip them away, because of an obscure leviticus passage, or because they are disgusted with it and don't believe we deserve happiness.

Lil Loco

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2007, 08:34:03 am »
Lol we've already had this discussion before and I dont feel like going through it again...You know where I'm at on this.

Dragon Of Grief

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2007, 08:56:16 am »
And I am trying to make you understand that gay couples and hetero couples deserve the SAME BENEFITS OF MARRIAGE. It is UNFAIR. I don't care what you say, all you have is religious convictions to be against gay marriage. No logical reasoning. It's about human rights for crying out loud! Not some obscure Leviticus verses! We need financial aid, we need government benefits, we need a FAMILY HEALTHCARE PLAN not some close minded religious fanatics denying us those rights because of THEIR convictions! Why don't these Christians care about us? About our happiness? Why don't you just ban everything that bible of yours says is bad? Why stop with gay marriage? Be consistant!

Edit: I am sorry to come off harsh Jeremy, but this issue really gets to me.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 09:55:22 am by Dragon Of Grief »

Lil Loco

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2007, 09:57:44 am »
I'm not stupid Ty, I know what you're trying to say.  And i think they deserve the same benefits too, but I feel that there should be a way outside of marriage to achieve that.  Christians aren't out to get you, they care about not having something sacred defiled by something that is against their faith.  You expect Christians not to go against something that directly relates to a set religious institution of theirs?  On a personal note, I don't believe that marriage should have ties to money in this country, period...It is an oath of love and committment and should be just that.  If someone wants financial benefits from being with a partner, fine...But marriage shouldn't be about money or legal benefits.  That's how I feel.

King Neptune

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2007, 01:12:14 pm »
Im agreeing with dragon with everything hes sayin but also agree with lil loco about how marriage should not bring advantages but it does so homosexuals cant get those advantages just because of the bible and isnt religion supposed to not be in the government.

spongey snail

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2007, 01:57:11 pm »
isnt religion supposed to not be in the government.
thats what we are arguing over.

Patback399

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2007, 02:45:02 pm »
I'm not stupid Ty, I know what you're trying to say.  And i think they deserve the same benefits too, but I feel that there should be a way outside of marriage to achieve that.  Christians aren't out to get you, they care about not having something sacred defiled by something that is against their faith.  You expect Christians not to go against something that directly relates to a set religious institution of theirs?  On a personal note, I don't believe that marriage should have ties to money in this country, period...It is an oath of love and committment and should be just that.  If someone wants financial benefits from being with a partner, fine...But marriage shouldn't be about money or legal benefits.  That's how I feel.

Define marriage. If a gay couple receives the same benefits without marriage as a hetero couple does in marriage, are they different? What's in a name?

And you are saying that Christians care about "not having something sacred defiled by something that is against their faith". C'mon! Can't we all make some sacrifices here? Gay couples are forbidden to marry, and you act as though allowing gay marriage would completely destroy hetero marriage.

Lil Loco

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2007, 03:04:08 pm »
Define marriage: The joining of a man and woman before God as one.
Shocking answer for me huh?  Look if you don't like where I stand, sorry...But I've agrued this debate too many times with people who've brought it up and I'm tired of arguing it.  If you or anyone else have differing opinions, that's great for you...I'm not gonna go on and on, thinking that I'm gonna change you views because it's really unlikely that I will.  And you should realize that you're not gonna change my views either...I'm not gonna compromise my beliefs just to appease someone.  I respect other peoples' opinions and I just ask that they respect mine...Of course, I doubt you respect mine but oh well.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 03:08:17 pm by Lil Loco »

Dragon Of Grief

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2007, 03:28:33 pm »
I'm not stupid Ty, I know what you're trying to say.  And i think they deserve the same benefits too, but I feel that there should be a way outside of marriage to achieve that.  Christians aren't out to get you, they care about not having something sacred defiled by something that is against their faith.  You expect Christians not to go against something that directly relates to a set religious institution of theirs?  On a personal note, I don't believe that marriage should have ties to money in this country, period...It is an oath of love and committment and should be just that.  If someone wants financial benefits from being with a partner, fine...But marriage shouldn't be about money or legal benefits.  That's how I feel.
How would a gay marriage affect Christians at all? How does me marrying another man destroy a straight marriage? Answer me that one. How does gay marriage damage you at all? And it WOULDN'T be such a big deal if marriage didn't have money and government benefits connected to it, but it does so that is why I am fighting for marriage equality for the most part.

Im agreeing with dragon with everything hes sayin but also agree with lil loco about how marriage should not bring advantages but it does so homosexuals cant get those advantages just because of the bible and isnt religion supposed to not be in the government.
That is the problem, Christians claimed marriage as a Christian institution. The definition of marriage reflects the Christian definition. With seperation of church and state that would no longer be a problem. Marriage would not be religious anymore, and take a look and the state of Massachusetts... the ONLY US state that currently allows gay marriage. They have the LOWEST divorce rates in the country, compared to conservative states like Texas and Virginia which have skyrocketing divorce rates. If Christians could just look beyond gender they would realize gay marriage does not harm them at all.

Define marriage. If a gay couple receives the same benefits without marriage as a hetero couple does in marriage, are they different? What's in a name?

And you are saying that Christians care about "not having something sacred defiled by something that is against their faith". C'mon! Can't we all make some sacrifices here? Gay couples are forbidden to marry, and you act as though allowing gay marriage would completely destroy hetero marriage.
I am still waiting for a logical reason why gay marriage should be illegal but all people can come up with is "The bible says it is wrong" or "Eww gross nasty" no logical, factual, reasons... just narrow minded beliefs.

Define marriage: The joining of a man and woman before God as one.
Shocking answer for me huh?  Look if you don't like where I stand, sorry...But I've agrued this debate too many times with people who've brought it up and I'm tired of arguing it.  If you or anyone else have differing opinions, that's great for you...I'm not gonna go on and on, thinking that I'm gonna change you views because it's really unlikely that I will.  And you should realize that you're not gonna change my views either...I'm not gonna compromise my beliefs just to appease someone.  I respect other peoples' opinions and I just ask that they respect mine...Of course, I doubt you respect mine but oh well.
I can respect your beliefs, but that doesn't mean I gotta like them or agree with them. I am not out to change your opinions, but hopefully give you a few things to think about. But the difference between my opinion and yours is mine is backed up with facts and logic whereas yours is just religious heresay, and conviction.

But as far as I am concerned marriage hopefully will no longer be a Christian owned right in the future...

Lil Loco

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2007, 04:31:48 pm »
Like I said, I don't believe that it should hold monetary/legal benefits, even for straight people.  It should purely be a divine joining of man and woman out of love and nothing more.  You want your separation of church and state, fine...Christians, Jews, etc would keep their institution and there would be no governmental benefits involved.  There...Economic and social equality for you.  That's what I would like to see...And that's what would solve this whole little deal of benefits for some and not others.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 04:33:48 pm by Lil Loco »

Dragon Of Grief

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Re: Your Political party
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2007, 04:42:41 pm »
Ok, now you at least see where I am coming from... benefits for all or for none. How it should be IMO.