Author Topic: Sooo yeah... illegal immigration  (Read 19696 times)

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sponge monkey100

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2006, 07:03:52 pm »
today peopkle were walking out of class to join the protest in our city @ 2:00

King Neptune

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2006, 07:12:37 pm »
Everybody thought I was gonna walk out because I'm mexican but I didn't.  

but really america should let immigrants in this is getting on my nerves.

Lil Loco

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2006, 08:49:50 pm »
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yea...and not havin to pay the federal government any money...and mailing U.S. dollars from their paycheckz into mexico.
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I'm not saying that they shouldn't pay taxes, it's just that they are, more times than less, willing to work hard.
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i never said they werent willin to work hard...the fact iz therez alotta latinoz and other immigrantz that are more than happy to work jobz for less.  it just shouldnt get them outta their responsibility to pay their due.

Offline IZ

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2006, 08:52:19 pm »
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yea...and not havin to pay the federal government any money...and mailing U.S. dollars from their paycheckz into mexico.
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I'm not saying that they shouldn't pay taxes, it's just that they are, more times than less, willing to work hard.
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i never said they werent willin to work hard...the fact iz therez alotta latinoz and other immigrantz that are more than happy to work jobz for less.  it just shouldnt get them outta their responsibility to pay their due.
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Hmm... I guess you're right. :P

God, I hate ruining debates. XD
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 08:52:36 pm by IZ »

ernest310

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2006, 04:18:15 pm »
*Runs into topic late, as usual*

Some issues that no one has brought up yet:

(1) The number of illegal immigrants that aren't Latino.  While most are Latino, there are a significant number of illegal immigrants from other parts of the world--especially Asia.  Many illegal immigrants come here legally and overstay their visas.

(2) Why do rich capitalists so often escape the blame?  You rarely hear corporations chiming in on the issue for one reason: illegal immigrants provide an excellent pool of extremely expoitable labor.  Rich corporations love illegal immigrants.  "Hey, you'll wash my toilets and build my new building for 3 bucks an hour?  Cool!  And if you complain or ask for healthcare, we'll just deport you."

(3) "Why are so many coming here?" is the tired and oft-repeated inquiry.  Better question: "Why are so many leaving?"  I doubt most illegal immigrants are sitting on their second story balcony sipping on another strawberry daquiris, thinking, "Hmm! Let's be illegal immigrants who get pushed around and hated on."  On the contrary, as many have noted in this thread, those that are coming are almost always beyond the desperation point, and no wall (or whatever barrier you imagine) between the US and other countries is going to stop them from trying to get here.

We might combine points (2) and (3) to make a related observation: Have US policies helped created the conditions which encourage emigration from countries to the US?  Now that's not a question you're likely to hear from many on either side of the debate.  I rarely do.  But I cannot help but think of policies like NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement.)  The passage of NAFTA in 1993 was disastrous for certain areas of Mexico--especially areas primarily populated by indigenous Mayans, who "lived the land" rather than "lived on the land."  Consider the following statement written in 2005 (you can read the whole thing at http://www.independence.net/chiapas/)

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Since 1994 and the onslaught of NAFTA, the war against the peasant Mayans has been 'low intensity' enough to be on few people's radars. The government strategy is age-old. The native peoples live on resource-rich land, with petroleum, water, uranium, hardwood, and genetic bonanzas. Not to mention all those archeological sites just waiting for tourist development. The Mexican government, greatly in debt to the US and looking out for its own upper class, betrayed its poor masses with NAFTA. It changed 30 points of law to accommodate it, including Article 27 of its constitution which had protected peasant land for perpetual communal use. Now, if the campesinos find their lives intolerably threatened they can lose their land. And thus the pressure of 1/3 of Mexico's military camping out on their doorsteps, helicopter flyovers, rapes, disappearances, murders. And the devastating effect of the plummeting price of corn to the grower, down 80% since NAFTA's inception.
As a result of the disruptive turmoil wrought by the demands of advanced global capitalism, many sought refuge in America--most illegally.  Recalling point (2) above, it was these rich multinational corporations who most supported the passing of NAFTA, as they had much to gain, the indigenous peoples of Mexico be ::Dolphin Noise::ed.

The crucial questions: Who, specifically, is immigrating here illegally?  Who really benefits from all this?  There is compelling evidence that middle- and lower-class Americans do suffer, especially blacks, whose jobs often get filled by illegal immigrants.  But the corporations love them!  So why does nobody get on the case of rich, multinational corporations???  No pun intended, but that's the billion-dollar question in my mind!

In the end, we have to remember that these debates are hardly new.  Consider the following immigration exclusion acts:

*1882 Chinese Exclusion Act
*1906-07 Gentlemen's Agreement (Japanese laborers can no longer leave Japan)
*1924 Immigration Act (aimed at Southeast Europeans, such as Jews, Italians, Poles, Greeks, etc.)
*1934 Tydings-McDuffie Act (Filipinos can no longer immigrate here.)

If you study out the debates surrounding each of these, you will encounter chilling parallels between those debates and what we are experiencing now, such as:
*Are they taking our jobs?  The above 4 immigration exclusion acts were all about this feeling that the newcomers were taking the jobs that belong to WASP-Americans (below, we'll see they were called "Nordics") and providing a debilitating drain on the economy.
*Is this a racial issue?  Here's one place where today's debates somewhat diverge from the debates of yesterday.  I'm not saying that today's immigration debate has no racial dimension (I absolutely think it does).  The difference is that back then, nobody danced around the racial issue.  That these folks were not white was a major factor in their exclusion.

On this latter point, consider the words of then-Senator David Reed of Pennsylvania regarding the 1924 Immigration Act (the "Johnson-Reed Act"):

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Thank God we have in America perhaps the largest percentage of any country in the world of the pure, unadulterated Anglo-Saxon stock; certainly the greatest of any nation in the Nordic breed. It is for the preservation of that splendid stock that has characterized us that I would make this not an asylum for the oppressed of all countries, but a country to assimilate and perfect that splendid type of manhood that has made America the foremost Nation in her progress and in her power, and yet the youngest of all the nations.
In our PC post-civil rights world, what role "race" plays in the current immigration debate is most complex.

Sorry (again) for the long post, and feel free to ask me to clarify anything that didn't make sense.

Rachy

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2006, 01:53:39 am »
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I'm not going to even touch this issue; your either going to hate me or side with me 100%.

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Ok this affects me cuz like 12432352 immigrants live by/near me. I hate hearing about it. This is the LANDOFTHEFREE. Who wouldn't wanna live here? lol. But yeah, I mean seriously, shouldnt we welcome them with open arms? I know some people are doing wrong over here.. but uh.. some aren't. Some want to make a better living. They need to take care of their families.

It's not fair!

I HATE YOU AMERICA!

Going to get immigration papers or visa really isnt that hard; theres absolutely no reason to come into this country illegally.
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Erm? Snowthrower, are you an immigrant?  Do you have any idea of the process that you have to go through to be allowed migrate to another country?  Because if you don't...then I think you should shut up  :glare: .

I migrated to Australia, and the only reason that it was easy for us (and by easy I mean, months of examinations and medical testing) was because I already had family here.  It's not as easy as filling in some forms and moving on in.  It's a fairly long process and if you don't have family in the country, or if you’re ill in any way, or don’t have work set up and ready, somewhere to live, and a certain amount of money...IT ISN'T EASY!  

Not only that, but you have to keep updating your VISA once you're in the country...which costs money, or become a citizen...which costs money.
 
You can't just assume things like that!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2006, 01:56:44 am by Rachy »

carterhawk

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2006, 02:01:01 am »
My vote is for a 50 foot titanium reinforced concrete wall surrounded by a 200 foot wide ravine between us and our neighbors on both borders. I dont realy care that much about folks coming in to work, (although it would be best if machines could do every job and i could spend my life doing w/e). I worry more about people coming in who mean to do harm to this country, like terrorist groups. of course you still have to contend with the ocean borders, those would be quite tricky to seal off....
« Last Edit: April 12, 2006, 02:10:24 am by carterhawk »

Dragon Of Grief

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2006, 06:27:06 pm »
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Ok this affects me cuz like 12432352 immigrants live by/near me. I hate hearing about it. This is the LANDOFTHEFREE. Who wouldn't wanna live here? lol. But yeah, I mean seriously, shouldnt we welcome them with open arms? I know some people are doing wrong over here.. but uh.. some aren't. Some want to make a better living. They need to take care of their families.

It's not fair!

I HATE YOU AMERICA!
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We need to take care of our OWN families... They are downgrading our wya of life, taking our jobs, and stealing money from us. This is land of the free... not land of the illegals.
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They're not "taking" our jobs.

Lost your job to someone who was willing to work harder for less money? Boo hoo. :(
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That still doesn't explain what right they have to be in our country illegally... look, I realize we were all immigrants at some point in time. My family came here from Sweden and Germany back during the late 1800/ early 1900s... but they learned English, assimilated into American culture, and adopted the American way of life. These illegal immigrants are refusing to do all of that. They are forcing us too learn Spanish... a language rarely heard in this country until the wave of illegals increased these past several years.

As far as doing harder work for less money... that is very bad for our economy because then these corporations and big businesses are just getting richer and richer and gaining more and more power... yeah, sure, cheap labor is nice but at what cost? Is it all really worth it in the end? The wages these illegal Mexicans work for are wages Americans could NEVER survive off of... if everyone in American worked for the same wages Mexicans worked for this country would collapse.

Lil Loco

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2006, 08:37:52 am »
lol, you and me got pretty much the same viewz on this topic, ty...

but about spanish being rarely used...lol, that aint how it iz in alotta partz of cali.  spanish dont p1ss me off as much cuz i can speak it, but pretty soon itz gonna start mixing so much that our state language will be spanglish.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2006, 08:39:15 am by Lil Loco »

Banana

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2006, 08:42:06 am »
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart.

That's pretty much my stance on the issue.

carterhawk

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2006, 02:49:05 pm »
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http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart.

That's pretty much my stance on the issue.
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Nice.

A lot of folks also dont realise that because people coming from other countries work cheap, they keep inflation down. if it was all white bred middle americans do all the jobs, min wage would be like $12/hr.

Dragon Of Grief

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2006, 06:20:37 pm »
It is still unacceptable to sneak into this country illegally... worst of all they take the money they earn and send it down to Mexico. That is money Americans are losing... we have a national debt of enormous proportions... with these illegal immigrants sending that money down to Mexico we are being driven even farther in debt then we already are.

The Cigarette Smoking Sponge

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2006, 06:37:10 pm »
Those dirty no good boarder hoppers should be picked up by their tailfins and thrown back to Mayyyheeko.

Dragon Of Grief

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2006, 07:10:46 pm »
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Those dirty no good boarder hoppers should be picked up by their tailfins and thrown back to Mayyyheeko.
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*sigh*

When will you get a life, MSP :sad:

Offline DiE HaRrD PuNk

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Sooo yeah... illegal immigration
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2006, 09:19:07 am »
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I am surprised nobody has brought this up yet... as we know the amount of illegal immigration from Mexico has skyrocketed... never have we had such a huge population boom. Many of these illegal immigrabts are refusing to assimilate into American culture... meaning they refuse to learn English, take American jobs for less then minimum wage and NOW they are demanding healthcare and education! And now the government is trying to make a bill that lets illegal aliens work on American soil. Some of these illegals are even suggesting that the land is rightfully theres! I can understand that when American bought that part of Mexico that the Mexicans that lived there had no choice, but for the ones that were never there when it happened have absolutely no RIGHT to be there. We need our resources for legal Americans... not these intruding illegals. Here is a website that they started.

http://www.mexica-movement.org/ENTERHERETEXTONLY.htm

They are basically saying that White people should go back to their homelands in Europe... which is assanine considering most White people living on American soil where BORN in America when these illegals where not.

Anybody else have an opinion to share or facts too add?
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Ok this affects me cuz like 12432352 immigrants live by/near me. I hate hearing about it. This is the LANDOFTHEFREE. Who wouldn't wanna live here? lol. But yeah, I mean seriously, shouldnt we welcome them with open arms? I know some people are doing wrong over here.. but uh.. some aren't. Some want to make a better living. They need to take care of their families.

It's not fair!

I HATE YOU AMERICA!
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We need to take care of our OWN families... They are downgrading our wya of life, taking our jobs, and stealing money from us. This is land of the free... not land of the illegals.
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See, I don't care about them... I don't care. I care about the welfare and welbeing of my country... I could care less about some illegals. I don't care how POOR they are. If they want to be citizens here so badly then they need to come to our country by legal means... do you have any idea how damaging they are too our country, Scilla?
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There are HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of illegals immigrants here, Scilla... where do you get your statistics from? They take jobs from Americans, and they don't desevre to be here. They need to all be shipped back to the sqauller they came from. If they hate their country so bad then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT instead of unjustifly coming on American soil and stealing from our country... how anyone can support these rats is beyond me.
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This is exactly How i feel. Dam straight. Couldn't have said it better myself Ty!
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