Author Topic: Things To Consider When Voting Tommorow.  (Read 9841 times)

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MiraclrPlz

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Things To Consider When Voting Tommorow.
« on: November 01, 2004, 07:21:09 pm »
As you all know, for motnhs know I've been telling you all what I truly believe is right.  Tommorow is the day.  I'm not going to tell you who to vote for.  I just want you to consider the five issues.  They are called non-negotiable because they concern actions that are always morally wrong and must never be prompted by law.  It is a serious sin to endorse or promote or vote for any of these actions.
1. Abortion

The Church teaches that, regarding abortions, it is "never licit to obey it, or take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of it."  It is the intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being, and there for, it is a homicide.  The child is always an innocent party, and NO law may permit the taking of his life.  Even when a child is conceived through rape or incest, the fault is not that of the child's, who should NEVER suffer death for others' sins.  One candidate of a major party, remember, I, MSP, will NOT tell you who to vote fpr, supports partial birth abortion.  During this, a baby is pulled out by the legs and all comes out but the head.  The skull is then crushed and the brain is vaccuumed out.  If you support partial birth abortion, you are sick.  You are sick and you need to seek help.
2. Euthenasia
Often disguised by the name "mercy killing", euthenasia also is a form of homicide.  No one has a right to take his own life (suicide), and no one has the right to take the life of any person.
In eutheasia, the ill or elderly are murdered out of a misplaced sence of compassion, but true compassion can not include doing something so intrinsically evil to another person.
3. Fetal Stem Cell Research
Human embyos are human beings.  "I loved you before I created you in the womb"-God.  "Respect for the dignity of the human being excludes all experimental manipulation or exploitation of human embryo."
Recent scientific advances that might arise from experimentation on fetal stem cell research cells can be developed by using adult stem cells instead.  Adult Stemcells can be obtained without doingf any harm to the adults from whom they came.  Thusly, there is no longer a medical argument in favor of using fetal stem cells.
4. Human Cloning
"Attempts...for obtaining a human being without any conncetion with sexuality through 'twin fusion', cloning, or parthenogenisis are to be considered contrary to the moral law, since they are in opposition to the dignity of both human procreation and of the conjugal union."
Human cloning also ends up being a form of homicide because the "rejected" or "unsuccessful" clones are destroyed, yet each clone is another human being.
5. Homosexual "Marriage"
True marriage is the union of one man and one woman.  Legal recognition of any other form of "marriage" undermines true marriage, and legal recognition of homosexual unions actually does homosexuals a disfavor by encouraging them to persist in what is an objectively immoral arrangement.
Express your opinion clearly and proudly and do your duty as American Citizens to vote against it.  To vote for something so harmful to the common good is gravely immoraal.  Do not choose a candidate thinking "What's in it for me"?  
MSP's guide on how to vote.
1. For each office, first determine how each candidate stands on each of the five non-negotiable issues.
2. Eliminate from consideration candidates who are wong on any of the non-negotiable issues.  No matter how right they may be on other issues, they should be disqualified if they are wrong on even one of thm.
3. Choose from among the remaining candidates based on your assesment of each candidates views of lesser issues.  There are alot of threads that talk about this issue, but I'm trying to talk about voting based on them.  I never said who to vote for, and good luck to all the decent candidates*cough bush cough cough*

Offline Hannahbal

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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2004, 07:38:13 pm »
Religion is negotiable, therefore these issues are negotiable as well.

Gideon Brown

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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2004, 07:46:38 pm »
ur against abortion and euthanasia...but MSP...are you against capital punishment and war?!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 07:46:49 pm by Charliez Fallen Angel »

MiraclrPlz

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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2004, 07:47:29 pm »
This has nothing to do with religion  Well It has everything to do with religion but also conscience.  Consience is like an alarm.  It warns you when you are about to do something wrong.  It does not itself determine what is right or wrong.  For your conscience to work properly, it must first be properly informed--that id, you must inform yourself about what is right and what is wrong.  Only then will your conscience be truly a trusted guide.  The result of ignorance causes some alarms not to go off.  A well informed conscience would never go against catholic moral teaching.  For that reason, if you are unsure where your conscience is leading you when at the box, place your trust in the unwavering moral teachings of the Church. Why I mention the Church is one candidate claims to be Catholic.  He is against all of the moral teachings.  Therefore he is only Catholic because he seeks votes from Catholics.  Kerry=OWNED.
Richard Nixon: "SOCK IT TO ME?!" God I love Richard Nixon.

Elizabeth Rose

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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2004, 05:56:58 am »
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ur against abortion and euthanasia...but MSP...are you against capital punishment and war?!
War is not the same as either of the above murders. War is something that is neccesary and has to be done on occasion. Look at World War II. What would have happened if we did not fight Hitler? Well, following to the no war views, we'd all be under the Third Reich or dead.

Good post MSP! Usually you are a little too excited for me but I like this thread. Excellent points there, excellent.

Offline IZ

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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2004, 06:09:36 am »
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Quote
ur against abortion and euthanasia...but MSP...are you against capital punishment and war?!
War is not the same as either of the above murders. War is something that is neccesary and has to be done on occasion. Look at World War II. What would have happened if we did not fight Hitler? Well, following to the no war views, we'd all be under the Third Reich or dead.

Good post MSP! Usually you are a little too excited for me but I like this thread. Excellent points there, excellent.
Actually, it is the same thing. Abortion/Euthsnia is used for good too...

Gideon Brown

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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2004, 06:23:16 am »
Still no mention of Capital Punishment. Captial Punishment is the same thing. You're killing a person. It is a life that God made, no matter how much the Devil tempted this person to trail off the path. If you agree with Capital Punishment, well, that, in my opinion is worse than abortion. Why do I think this? Because Canada has one very famous case about a young 14 year old boy convicted of murder and was going to be hanged. But luckily we got rid of Capital Punishment before he was hung, because guess what; he was innocent.

Offline ssj4gogita4

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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2004, 06:41:31 am »
I'll take into consideration that I just vote for random people...I dont know who these people are. Except one...(not bush)

GrEeNdAyFrEaK

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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2004, 08:03:17 am »
We're electing a Senator this year as well as 8 or so other states. The Senate race here is really funny because one of the candidates is an old guy that's been there for 12 years that says some really stupid stuff XD He called the other candidate "limp wristed" and said that he looked like one of Saddam's sons. He also, by mistake, called Saddam a "friend to the United States" x.x George Clooney's dad is running for something here, too, I forget what it is.

Elizabeth Rose

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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2004, 09:42:37 am »
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Quote
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ur against abortion and euthanasia...but MSP...are you against capital punishment and war?!
War is not the same as either of the above murders. War is something that is neccesary and has to be done on occasion. Look at World War II. What would have happened if we did not fight Hitler? Well, following to the no war views, we'd all be under the Third Reich or dead.

Good post MSP! Usually you are a little too excited for me but I like this thread. Excellent points there, excellent.
Actually, it is the same thing. Abortion/Euthsnia is used for good too...
No, it's not. War is neccesary. The slaughter of an unborn baby is not neccesary. Neither is the slaughter of an old man who is supposedly "in the way", or a cancer patient that "is selfish for continuing to live and bother her family", or an infirm old lady in a nursing home who is "no longer convenient".

I'm not really for Capitol Punishment either. I believe in killing people like Bin Laden or Saddam but only because they'd kill me (and, quite frankly, any other American) if given the chance. A war on terrorism though isn't really the same as Capitol Punishment.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 09:43:31 am by Elizabeth Rose »

Offline IZ

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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2004, 09:59:16 am »
Quote
Quote
Quote
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ur against abortion and euthanasia...but MSP...are you against capital punishment and war?!
War is not the same as either of the above murders. War is something that is neccesary and has to be done on occasion. Look at World War II. What would have happened if we did not fight Hitler? Well, following to the no war views, we'd all be under the Third Reich or dead.

Good post MSP! Usually you are a little too excited for me but I like this thread. Excellent points there, excellent.
Actually, it is the same thing. Abortion/Euthsnia is used for good too...
No, it's not. War is neccesary. The slaughter of an unborn baby is not neccesary. Neither is the slaughter of an old man who is supposedly "in the way", or a cancer patient that "is selfish for continuing to live and bother her family", or an infirm old lady in a nursing home who is "no longer convenient".

I'm not really for Capitol Punishment either. I believe in killing people like Bin Laden or Saddam but only because they'd kill me (and, quite frankly, any other American) if given the chance. A war on terrorism though isn't really the same as Capitol Punishment.
What if a baby is going to be born with AIDS and will have to suffer throughout it's entire life?

Elizabeth Rose

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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2004, 10:01:59 am »
You can't guarantee it will be. I was supposed to have Down's Syndrome and I don't. The doctors aren't always right.

Fifth Dynasty

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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2004, 10:15:42 am »
But they usually are. I support everything MSP said. Euthanasia is good. Would you like to suffer? No.
Abortion is good, too. Oh, they don't crush the child's skull or vaccuum the brain out. That's a crock of crap. Homosexual Marriage is also a RIGHT. It may be a sin, but it's genetically a sin. You CANNOT help it or change it if you are a true Homosexual. I'm for Kerry, Kerry supports all of the above, he's not against it.

Gideon Brown

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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2004, 01:05:57 pm »
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Neither is the slaughter of an old man who is supposedly "in the way", or a cancer patient that "is selfish for continuing to live and bother her family", or an infirm old lady in a nursing home who is "no longer convenient".
 
Do you believe that all cases of euthanasia are like this? I agree with euthanasia if the person is 100% brain dead, but still breathing. I also believe in euthanasia when it is the dying person's wish. How can you say no to someone who is terminally ill, with no possible recovery? "No, I won't kill you because God wants you to suffer horrible pain that not even I can imagine?" I don't think so.

Offline Hannahbal

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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2004, 02:01:49 pm »
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We're electing a Senator this year as well as 8 or so other states. The Senate race here is really funny because one of the candidates is an old guy that's been there for 12 years that says some really stupid stuff XD He called the other candidate "limp wristed" and said that he looked like one of Saddam's sons. He also, by mistake, called Saddam a "friend to the United States" x.x George Clooney's dad is running for something here, too, I forget what it is.
Wow, that sounds a lot funnier than ours. The senators running here are just plain ANNOYING. They run attack ads CONSTANTLY. The other day I was watching the news, and a commercial Brad Carson made said that he would not air any more attack ads on the other candidates (...Coburn) and then right after the commercial you see an attack ad that Brad Carson made himself against Tom Coburn...it was pretty funny, actually.

Elizabeth Rose

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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2004, 06:59:27 pm »
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Neither is the slaughter of an old man who is supposedly "in the way", or a cancer patient that "is selfish for continuing to live and bother her family", or an infirm old lady in a nursing home who is "no longer convenient".
 
Do you believe that all cases of euthanasia are like this? I agree with euthanasia if the person is 100% brain dead, but still breathing. I also believe in euthanasia when it is the dying person's wish. How can you say no to someone who is terminally ill, with no possible recovery? "No, I won't kill you because God wants you to suffer horrible pain that not even I can imagine?" I don't think so.
You don't get it. If euthanasia is legalized then the government will get to decide whether or not you are worth saving. They'll decide whether you live or die when you become ill. They will have control over your life. That's not freedom.

Offline SizzlinSean

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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2004, 07:05:07 pm »
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Still no mention of Capital Punishment. Captial Punishment is the same thing. You're killing a person. It is a life that God made, no matter how much the Devil tempted this person to trail off the path. If you agree with Capital Punishment, well, that, in my opinion is worse than abortion. Why do I think this? Because Canada has one very famous case about a young 14 year old boy convicted of murder and was going to be hanged. But luckily we got rid of Capital Punishment before he was hung, because guess what; he was innocent.
Capital punishment is totally different than Abortion. Capital punishment is applied to someone who has commited a crime. It doesn't matter how much the devil tempted that person, he made the decision himself. A baby doesn't have a choice. He didn't even do anything wrong. You can't compare the two.

GrEeNdAyFrEaK

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« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2004, 07:07:43 pm »
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Wow, that sounds a lot funnier than ours. The senators running here are just plain ANNOYING. They run attack ads CONSTANTLY. The other day I was watching the news, and a commercial Brad Carson made said that he would not air any more attack ads on the other candidates (...Coburn) and then right after the commercial you see an attack ad that Brad Carson made himself against Tom Coburn...it was pretty funny, actually.
Well it just got funnier, the old dude won x.x

Gideon Brown

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« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2004, 07:09:33 pm »
This poem will be long, but I'd like you to read it...it makes sense of what I, as a very patriotic Canadian, think of Capital Punishment

REQUIEM FOR A FOURTEEN-YEAR-OLD
By: Pierre Berton

In Goderich town
The Sun abates
December is coming
And everyone waits:
In a small, dark room
On a small, hard bed
Lies a small, pale boy
Who is not quite dead.

The cell is lonely
The cell is cold
October is young
But the boy is old;
Too old to cringe
And too old to cry
Though young --
But never too young to die.

It's true enough
That we cannot brag
Of a national anthem
Or a national flag
And though our Vision
Is still in doubt
At last we've something to boast about:
We've a national law
In the name of the Queen
To hang a child
Who is just fourteen.

The law is clear:
It says we must
And in this country
The law is just
Sing heigh! Sing ho!
For justice blind
Makes no distinction
Of any kind;
Makes no allowances for sex or years,
A judge's feelings, a mother's tears;
Makes no allowances for age or youth
Just eye for eye and tooth for tooth
Tooth for tooth and eye for eye:
A child does murder
A child must die.

Don't fret ... don't worry ...
No need to cry
We'll only pretend he's going to die;
We're going to reprieve him
Bye and bye.

We're going to reprieve him
(We always do),
But it wouldn't be fair
If we told him, too
So we'll keep the secret
As long as we can
And hope that he'll take it
Like a man.

And when we've told him
It's just "pretend"
And he won't be strung
At a noose's end,
We'll send him away
And, like as not
Put him in prison
And let him rot.

The jury said "mercy"
And we agree --
O, merciful jury:
You and me.

Oh death can come
And death can go
Some deaths are sudden
And some are slow;
In a small cold cell
In October mild
Death comes each day
To a frightened child.

So muffle the drums and beat them slow,
Mute the strings and play them low,
Sing a lament and sing it well,
But not for the boy in the cold, dark cell,
Not for the parents, trembling-lipped,
Not for the judge who followed the script;
Save your prayers for the righteous ghouls
In that Higher Court who write the rules
For judge and jury and hangman too:
The Court composed of me and you.

In Goderich town
The trees turn red
The limbs go bare
As their leave are bled
And the days tick by
As the sky turns lead
For the small, scared boy
On the small, stark bed
A fourteen-year-old
Who is not quite dead.


Now....there's the poem...now here's my question...why should this 14 yr old die for a murder HE DID NOT COMMIT? That's right. He DID NOT commit murder. So if he HAD died....and THEN the evidence that was buried was found, what would you think then? Would his death still be justifiable? Would it? Please explain how an innocent man should be brought to death. And why a kid who was just 14 could be brought to death because he was the last eye witness to see the victim.
Mind you this happened a long time ago. Steven Truscott spent 11 years of his life in prison for a murder he did not commit. But thankfully, it was 11 years, and not death.  
« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 07:10:35 pm by Charliez Fallen Angel »

super_sayian_spongebob

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« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2004, 07:19:39 pm »
Plus I think this is ridiculous though to put this however, since many of us are too young to vote.  

MiraclrPlz

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« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2004, 06:12:04 pm »
I find it almost insulting for CFA to say I contradict myself by being pro-war.  That is the biggest crop of BS since, well, anything John History ever said.  War is nescessary to defend ones country from evil Stalins and Hitlers that put people in ovens and cook them.  Like Hitler did to the Jews.  And after Pearl Harbor.  You don't think war is necessary?  An Anti-War person like John Kerry, like all Liberal Democrats, thinks war is not nessecasry.  The death penalty.  The CHURCH itself, not to drag religion into this, it has NOTHING to do with this, used to execute people all the time.  When people commit murder the death penalty is there because they are dangerous and need to go.  They can't live with what they did.  THe have no remorse.  Executing and abortions are as diffrent as Bush and Kerry.  And don't say what if hes innocent 99% of the time he really is that serial killer or rapist that will stike again.  My religion is not against the death penalty.

Gideon Brown

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« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2004, 07:34:20 pm »
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I find it almost insulting for CFA to say I contradict myself by being pro-war.  That is the biggest crop of BS since, well, anything John History ever said.  War is nescessary to defend ones country from evil Stalins and Hitlers that put people in ovens and cook them.  Like Hitler did to the Jews.  And after Pearl Harbor.  You don't think war is necessary?  An Anti-War person like John Kerry, like all Liberal Democrats, thinks war is not nessecasry.  The death penalty.  The CHURCH itself, not to drag religion into this, it has NOTHING to do with this, used to execute people all the time.  When people commit murder the death penalty is there because they are dangerous and need to go.  They can't live with what they did.  THe have no remorse.  Executing and abortions are as diffrent as Bush and Kerry.  And don't say what if hes innocent 99% of the time he really is that serial killer or rapist that will stike again.  My religion is not against the death penalty.
MSP you aren't listening. this guy WAS innocent. The police decided to point blame on a 14 yr old kid without looking at other suspects...and this was at an armed forces base where there were HUNDREDS of men, many with cases of sexual assault. HE WAS AND STILL IS INNOCENT.  He never killed Lynne Harper. They police wanted to end the case quickly, and took other teens accounts of what happened that night seriously, while ignoring the account of an ADULT proving that Steven couldnt have killed her. Case closed. The judicial government IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. and if Truscott had been hanged, HIS DEATH WOULD NOT BE JUSTIFIABLE. The man who actually killed Harper ended up assaulting more women, and with a sense of guilt ended up in an insane asylum. Why guilt? Because he murdered someone.

MiraclrPlz

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« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2004, 07:48:52 pm »
This is the United States of America, and there are never any one put to death on false charges.  You have to be 100%.  And murderes have no remorse.  People can find fingerprints, blood on the clothes, etc. OJ...that was a freak thing, and I'm not allowed to say how it happend for fear of what might happen to me.

Gideon Brown

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« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2004, 07:51:30 pm »
*rolls eyes* of America is SOOOO much more advanced than Canada. Right. Like no one is ever wrongfully convicted in the US. You need some serious help if you think that. Evidence can be left untouched if someone has their heart set on someone being the culprit of a crime.