Topic: Jesus and Crosses

[Lil Loco]

@ the shots you took at rachel...

He gives free choice as to whether you accept or reject Him...accepting is the only way to wipe the sins clean and become holy in His sight.  if someone chooses rejection, then they made that choice of their own accord...they earned themself eternal separation from God.  God doesnt send anyone.  and with all do respect, dont call my God "petty".

yea, Jesus knew He would die, but He didnt go straight to heaven when He died...He died baring the sins of the world.  it's believed by some that He went to Abraham's Bosom (AKA purgatory) to have those who followed God before Jesus came, sent to heaven.  after he resurrected, he later ascended to heaven.

and yea there's always been wars in the Middle East and other places...the Bible says that there will be many wars when the time draws near.  there have been more consecutive wars in the past 100 years than any other time in recorded history.

and while the mark of the beast may not necessarily be a chip...a mark will be used in corolation with the beast's number, 666. 

earthquakes being another sign.  they have increased in intensity and frequency some 2000% since Israel returned to the land in 1948.

God is not powerless against the anti-christ...his 7-year reign is just part of the end-times.  he will fall at the battle of armageddon.

you don't gotta believe anything you dont wanna...thats the beauty of free-will...but dont insult my faith.

@ your question to me...

christians decided the cross...and there are other symbols but cross is the most-used.  its a symbol that was chosen...i have no doubt that Jesus doesnt have a problem with it.

[DiE HaRrD PuNk]

Thank you, ive been waitin for you Loco.lol

And yes, our god is not "petty". He is kind, he is generose(sp?not awake), he gives us many chances in life. He is loving, he is caring, but he is aslo strict. He is the all around perfect God.Not much to argue over, and I gotta hit the sack, gotta get used to a new sleeping schedual for school.

G'night


thanks Loco


(p.s.) Only spelling Mistake was the generose, and thats because I forgot..lol
But its back in Paragraph form. Once again Sorry Iz, I kinda got worked up.



Oh yes, All seeing Eye,

If your so much against God about the things you've said e.x."Jesus died on the cross with all the sins of humanity, thats not enough for all of humanity" You said something close to that.

also "God knew this was going to happen, so did he allow the people who killed his son to go to heaven too"

Your being a smart alec. If you do not believe in God, If you dont believe the true things you are supposed to believe, then please leave this particular debate.

Smart remarks like that shows you don't belive in God, then you should leave the debate.You are dissing our God major. He is not "petty". You are saying what hes done with his son isnt really a big deal, because he was going to heaven anyways.

Its amazing how you believe that there is a God, but your agaisnt everything he's ever done for humainty.

Take a look of my dream on the second page. Maybe your the one who needs God, not us. We know who our God is, and he isn't what your claiming to be. Your so against him and changing our minds that everything he's done isn't really anything if you think about it, well YES IT IS! You are sounding much like the anti christ, trying to trick us into believing lies about our God. Your acting like your possessed by a demon or something. I've noticed your very bitter.

I dont mean to offend you im just saying what your acting like.

The questions for you I have is, " Do you believe in God?"

"And why are you so against him" as in putting him down and saying his work ment nothing.

sorry for any name calling or anything, i didnt mean it. Here we go again for another long ashh Msp comment, brace yourself Loco..

[IZ]

I am adopting. YOu shouldnt get married, id feel bad for your future husband, i mean wife..

Your an idiot, your right.


YEs i believe in him. He is coming again, I suppose if you dont believe it you wont be saved. Have fun on EArth with the anti christ.

Whoa there. Gay jokes. I didn't realize you were so mature.

Consider this a court; stop with the name calling or get suspended.

[carterhawk]

He gives free choice as to whether you accept or reject Him...accepting is the only way to wipe the sins clean and become holy in His sight.  if someone chooses rejection, then they made that choice of their own accord...they earned themself eternal separation from God.

What about those who have never heard of Jesus?

God doesnt send anyone.

Huh?

and with all do respect, dont call my God "petty".

Smite me now O mighty smiter!

yea, Jesus knew He would die, but He didnt go straight to heaven when He died...He died baring the sins of the world.  it's believed by some that He went to Abraham's Bosom (AKA purgatory) to have those who followed God before Jesus came, sent to heaven.  after he resurrected, he later ascended to heaven.

Let me pose a question. Did the romans who strung up jesus on the cross go to heaven for doing God's work?

and yea there's always been wars in the Middle East and other places...the Bible says that there will be many wars when the time draws near.  there have been more consecutive wars in the past 100 years than any other time in recorded history.

No, the 19th century had more wars and conflicts of note than the 20th. If anything, war is on the decline.

and while the mark of the beast may not necessarily be a chip...a mark will be used in corolation with the beast's number, 666. 

Naturaly, however the assertion that everything related to technology or the government tracking people or items == the mark of the beast is straight paranoia. When barcode was first invented many saw it as the mark of the beast.

earthquakes being another sign.  they have increased in intensity and frequency some 2000% since Israel returned to the land in 1948.

Care to show some data on that? Im looking at the USGS earthquake website, and a few things stand out. First, the intensity of quakes over the last 200 years has remained very consistant. Second, it seems amazingly obvious that as people become more widespread, technology improves, and data collection more accurate, we would be able to track more earthquakes now than we could 200 years ago. based on the history of recorded quakes in california alone in the last hundred years, it is safe to assume that there were just as many, if not more quakes, in the past. Geologicaly, the earth has become more stable as it has cooled, and will continue to become more stable.

God is not powerless against the anti-christ...his 7-year reign is just part of the end-times.  he will fall at the battle of armageddon.

Why a battle? why wouldnt god just snap his almighty fingers and make the anti christ stop existing?

you don't gotta believe anything you dont wanna...thats the beauty of free-will...but dont insult my faith.

Im not trying to insult it, these are the concerns and questions i have. If you cant handle an honest deconstruction of your faith, its time to find something else to do.

@Punk: Im not even going to try and read that, its full of errors, horrible grammar, misspellings, and way to much white space. Get a dictionary and look up Paragraph.

[DiE HaRrD PuNk]

Sorry, Iz, just really worked up.


I spaced it for you, Thoguht you wouldn't be able to read in paragraph form as well. I'm dislexic, so I like things spaced, but thats just me. Try reading it. I think you already have but you have nothing to say to it. But If youd like Id go back an edit it.

[DiE HaRrD PuNk]

I am adopting. YOu shouldnt get married, id feel bad for your future husband, i mean wife..

Your an idiot, your right.


YEs i believe in him. He is coming again, I suppose if you dont believe it you wont be saved. Have fun on EArth with the anti christ.

Whoa there. Gay jokes. I didn't realize you were so mature.

Consider this a court; stop with the name calling or get suspended.

sorry for the double post, but Iz, I had a typo, and my mom was yellin at me to get off the computer. I didnt mean for it to be that way, but now that i look at it i kinda laugh, cause i didnt mean to do that.

[carterhawk]

if your dyslexic, try running your posts through word's spelling and grammar checker, I know I would if I knew I was making mistakes.

[DiE HaRrD PuNk]

Most people dont have a problem with me spacing it. And if the majority don't, then neither do I. I am replying like you did while you did quotes. I am not going back and quoting you, I am just replying in.
You, however, aren't writing in paragraph form either. So don't say anything , you're being a hypocrit.

[carterhawk]

O.o
A series of sentences which are about one aspect of a topic.
universitywriting.shu.ac.uk/defs.htm

If any of my quote snippet responses are long enough, they become paragraph. I prefer to be succinct in my writing.

[DiE HaRrD PuNk]

Cool. Ok? That is you, not me. I may type in any form i want, It is a free country. In my country anyways....

[Lil Loco]

What about those who have never heard of Jesus?

its believed that those who honestly never heard or got the chance to learn about Christ will be viewed innocent, as a newborn baby would be.

Huh?

God doesnt send anyone to hell.

Let me pose a question. Did the romans who strung up jesus on the cross go to heaven for doing God's work?

the Romans were forgiven just as the rest of the world was...if they accepted Christ, then yea they'd be saved.

No, the 19th century had more wars and conflicts of note than the 20th. If anything, war is on the decline.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/war-1900.htm 

Care to show some data on that? Im looking at the USGS earthquake website, and a few things stand out. First, the intensity of quakes over the last 200 years has remained very consistant. Second, it seems amazingly obvious that as people become more widespread, technology improves, and data collection more accurate, we would be able to track more earthquakes now than we could 200 years ago. based on the history of recorded quakes in california alone in the last hundred years, it is safe to assume that there were just as many, if not more quakes, in the past. Geologicaly, the earth has become more stable as it has cooled, and will continue to become more stable.

the universal almanac says that there were only 21 earthquakes of major strength between the years 1000 and 1800. but between 1800 and 1900 there were 18 major earthquakes. between 1900 and 1950, there were 33 major quakes-almost as many as the number in the preceding 1,850 years.  between 1950 and 1991 there were 93 major earthquakes-- almost triple the number of the previous half century-which claimed the lives of 1.3 million people around the world. between 1992-2001 there were 171 major earthquakes-- That's 6 TIMES the amount between 1900--1950.  national earthquake center reports: on an annual average based since 1900. YEARLY: There are 17 major, 134 strong, 1,319 moderate, 13,200 light & 130,000 minor earthquakes. On a magnitude of 2-3, there are 1,000 per day. On a magnitude of 1-2, there are 8,000 per day.
year 2000 estimated deaths from earthquakes = 234 people
year 2004 estimated deaths from earthquakes = OVER 284,000 people
 

Why a battle? why wouldnt god just snap his almighty fingers and make the anti christ stop existing?

because the battle of armageddon is how He purges the earth of evil after the tribulation.  in the end times, those on earth have the choice of standing behind God or standing behind the anti-christ.  giving people the free will to align themselves with who they choose.

Im not trying to insult it, these are the concerns and questions i have. If you cant handle an honest deconstruction of your faith, its time to find something else to do.

lol, you're not deconstructing anything.

[DiE HaRrD PuNk]

Very nice Loco, couldn't have said it better. Its amazing how right he thinks he is..


The all seeing Eye, I found this:http://www.lamblion.com/Web15-00.php  copy and paste that into your internet bar.


The signs in nature. Look for it. Sure they have been here all the time, but they increase and become more dramatic like I said. I automaticly knew it before i even read it anywhere. I told you I knew what I was talking about.

The link should help anyone with Jesus and the signs that hes coming back with. Its very intresting.

[carterhawk]

its believed that those who honestly never heard or got the chance to learn about Christ will be viewed innocent, as a newborn baby would be.

Mkay, that answers that, thanks.

God doesnt send anyone to hell.

How do they get there?

the Romans were forgiven just as the rest of the world was...if they accepted Christ, then yea they'd be saved.

Good, ill be sure to accept christ on my deathbed, just in case.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/war-1900.htm 

Whats with you and obscure 5+ year old sources?
anyways, from your own source:
Before we get carried away condemning the century as a whole, we should keep in mind that the enormous body count has come about largely because there are so many more people available to kill. For example, the St. Bartholemew's Day Massacre in France in 1575 killed some 50,000 people, which, by 20th Century standards, is hardly enough to rate a place on these maps; however, considering that there were only 15 million Frenchmen at the time, this massacre would be the equivalent of 800,000 modern Americans -- a very frightening number indeed.
No I havent read the whole thing yet, but thats because it only deals with the 20th century. The last one hundred years is a mere fraction of the last 10,000. To clarify, 1900 to 1999 = 20th century, 1800 to 1899 = 19th century.

the universal almanac says that there were only 21 earthquakes of major strength between the years 1000 and 1800. but between 1800 and 1900 there were 18 major earthquakes. between 1900 and 1950, there were 33 major quakes-almost as many as the number in the preceding 1,850 years.  between 1950 and 1991 there were 93 major earthquakes-- almost triple the number of the previous half century-which claimed the lives of 1.3 million people around the world. between 1992-2001 there were 171 major earthquakes-- That's 6 TIMES the amount between 1900--1950.  national earthquake center reports: on an annual average based since 1900. YEARLY: There are 17 major, 134 strong, 1,319 moderate, 13,200 light & 130,000 minor earthquakes. On a magnitude of 2-3, there are 1,000 per day. On a magnitude of 1-2, there are 8,000 per day.
year 2000 estimated deaths from earthquakes = 234 people
year 2004 estimated deaths from earthquakes = OVER 284,000 people

Again with the unkown and old sources. anyways, 2000 and 2004 are 2 years, last i checked there was some time between them, although I suppose you aren't one to let an inconvenient truth stand in the way, huh? If you had bothered to be honest, you would have mentioned that in 2005 only about 90,000 people died, and this year only about 6,000 have died. That is a decline. Anyways, I had some time, so I did my research and came up with two graphs. The first one outlines the number of deaths by year of the last 26 years due to quakes. What should stand out is the big spike in 2004. Except, that number included deaths that resulted from the tsunami that occured after the quake. Aside from that, quake activity has been fairly consistant. Fact is, quakes are not something that we can realy predict. Sure there are theories about when the next big one is going to hit, based on historical data, but that doesnt change the fact that in any given year any number of people could die.

The second chart outlines all known major quakes with a death toll greater than 50,000. Of special note is that the biggest quake in the last 1200 years was 800 years ago, and that 1200 years ago the death toll for quakes was similar to what we have in the last decade. in between you see a fairly consistant ebb and flow, like a sine wave. Dont forget what I said early, and what the USGS also says. There are more people on the earth, and there are more monitoring stations than ever before. 800 years ago there were maybe 300 to 400 million people on the earth. The quake that occured then took out about 830,000 people. If a similar quake happened today, we would see a death toll of around 12 million people. As I said before, earthquakes arent becoming more often and more intense, there are just more people around to notice them and be killed by them.






From the USGS Earthquake Website

Are Earthquakes Really on the Increase?

We continue to be asked by many people throughout the world if earthquakes are on the increase. Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant.

A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications. In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more that 8,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by electronic mail, internet and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years. The NEIC now locates about 20,000 earthquakes each year or approximately 50 per day. Also, because of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in the environment and natural disasters, the public now learns about more earthquakes.

According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 17 major earthquakes (7.0 - 7.9) and one great earthquake (8.0 or above) in any given year.

because the battle of armageddon is how He purges the earth of evil after the tribulation.  in the end times, those on earth have the choice of standing behind God or standing behind the anti-christ.  giving people the free will to align themselves with who they choose.

Mkay, so long as its very obvious who the anti christ is so that people have a fair chance to oppose him/her, thats totaly cool. However it still seems odd that god needs worshipers, its not like this is Black & White or Stargate.

lol, you're not deconstructing anything.

I'll look for a more accurate word, since true deconstruction of the bible would be a very lengthy and involved process.

[DiE HaRrD PuNk]

God doesnt send people to hell. They send themselves to hell. And you cannot just live a life of sin then all the sudden you ask for him on your deathbed. It does not work that way. You could die tomorrow instantly and wouldn't have the chance to ask, and you will be asked by God why you should be able to come to heaven. "Because you simple were "a good person" doesn't mean you will go to heaven. You must have a relationship with Him, you must accept him as your Lord and savior. You can't just ask for Him on your deathbed, because he will even tell you when you get judged that you never lived a life of a follower or did what a true follower did until your dieing day so you could go to heaven. You did it for the pure benidet of you, which is greed. Which is one of the 7 deadliest sins.  By the way,It does NOT work that way. God will know what you have done. You want to live the life YOU want to live, not what God wants for you. Therefore you will not go to heaven if you ask for The Lord on your dieing day. Therefore you have done what you have pleased and done what you wanted, and then figure you can get off the hook because you ask for him once. He will not let you come to heaven if that is the case.

Ask and preacher, pastor, or preist, and they will tell you what I have told you. I know what God wants from us. I know what he wants for me. But you will have to figure out what he wants from you in life. Obviously the basics to get to heaven, Believe he died on the cross for all the sins of humainity, believe he is the only God. Read the passage(bible), and have a personal relationship by talking and praying to him.

A quote I read, not exact but pretty close to it.

A man died and he was a good man. He went to church,  made money for his family, had a good job, made alot of money, a nice car, and a wonderful house.

When he approached God, God asked him "Why do you think you should go to heaven? What acheivements have you reached in life to recieve such an honor?" I will rack up the things by points. Once you reach 100 points, you may enter the kingdom of Heaven"

The man replied, "well, I was a lawyer"

God: one point.

man: One point?! I made lots of money,won many cases! It should be at least 5 points!

God: Ok, 5 points. Next?

Man: well I didnt beat my wife or children.

God: one point.

Man: Only one point? Alot of men do that!

God: dont argue with me, what else.

Man: I had a nice car, a nice house, and fed my family!

God:3 points.

Man:I never cheated on my wife!

God: 2 points.

God"thats one point

man:thats only 12 points total! How am i suppsed to get 100?

God: Think about this. How many things have you done for yourself in life?

Man: well alot I suppose. At least over a hundred, I just cant remember right now

God: Then it must havent have been that important or meaningful.

Man: well....

God: Now think about this.

Man: yes?

God: How many things in life have you done for other people? Simple nice things?

Man:... (the man said nothing and looked down)

God: Have you not helped any elder by holding a door? By dropping by friends and family jus out of the kindness of your heart? Not just because you had to? Have you given food or money to any homless person? Even a small amount of change is still a thing worth alot to me.
Say every time you held a door for someone, that, to me, is worth 10 points. That was not for yourself, but for someone else. Every time you donate to an orphanage or a church, it would count as 20 points. Its kind small things in life that are wprth the most. You never had a relationship with me. Sure you went to church, had a great job, but you really did not sucseed in life. Material things will not come with you to heaven, such as money, houses, and cars.

Man: I suppose you are right.



that is a quote i had read somewhere. I didnt finish the rest of it, but what happens is that the man does not go to Heaven. He was never serious about Father God. He only thought of himself.


That is an awesome quote. One of my favorites. I hope you enjoyed reading it.

[carterhawk]

God is all knowing, why should we have to rely on our feeble memories when he has seen our entire lives? If god didnt want me to have free will, I would not have been granted it. The best thing I can do is make the most of this gift. All this stuff about God testing humanity, its like putting a rat in a maze. God is to Me as I am to an Amoeba. For a being as mighty as god to be so very concerned with human affairs seems to me, very absurd.

Not to mention in the last few days you have done satans work here, turning me away from christ, insulting me, calling me names. Very unchristian indeed.